Late Night Music Club with the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra featuring the Marcus Roberts Trio
By Andy K Sunday Oct 05, 2008 7:00pmGeorge Gershwin's Rhapsody In Blue from Seiji Ozawa - A Gershwin Night
If the much-heralded first performance of this piece was anything like the one presented here, it was lush, beautiful and fantastic.
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Has a better piece of music ever been written?
I think this comes close!
Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/q...
To what?
Music is totally subjective, there is no better or worse, it’s all a mater of taste!
I like Queen and i like that song. There is just no comparison. It is like Einstein and Cronkite. I liked them both, but they are not in the same ball park.
that was simply beautiful!
I have heard dozens of GREAT versions of this song. This was one of the best. It made me weep like a baby. But don't miss Gershwin do it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiyc9Ak3EtQ
Good god, no, the first performance wasn't anything remotely like this. This is a two-pronged attack on Gershwin by a highfalutin conductor who plays from a buttery, overorchestrated version that didn't even exist in Gershwin's lifetime, as far as I know, and a performer who "jazzes it up" at every opportunity. Both suffer from the fatal flaw of thinking that Gershwin would have written it better if he'd only been as smart and musical as them. Jerks.
If you want to hear what it was like at the premiere, go find Michael Tilson-Thomas conducting the original jazz band orchestration. If you want to hear what it should sound like, shorn of digressions and worthless additions, go find Gershwin's piano roll of the piece, vibrant with authenticity and showing real emotion instead of this postmodern crapola.
I agree that this is one of the most enjoyable pieces of music written, which makes it all the stranger to me that people can't resist pissing on it and trying to "improve" it -- people with apparently no feeling for Gershwin, his time, or his music. Even freakin' Lenny Bernstein comes closer to the heart of the matter than these clowns.
Do yourself a favor and go find the real thing. Listen to Gershwin's roll. There's your "rhapsody in blue," not in this extruded music product.
Music is meant to inspire. If ever a piece of music inspired, Rhapsody in Blue has. Instead of denigrating people for taking it on and making their mark on it why don't you try to accept music's (and Gershwin's) intent?
You want Gershwin's intent? Here it is. That's part 1. Part 2 should be right there with it.
Making a mark on someone else's concert music smells like vandalism. You want to make a mark? Write your own music.
Gershwin has had several versions of his own. Did you somehow miss that?
I don't think I've missed any. I have dozens of recordings of this, including four different versions with Gershwin at the piano, plus the sheet music. It's really the piece that turned me on to classical music.
The orchestrations were all done by Ferde Grofe: two in Gershwin's lifetime, and the last at about the time of his death. Gershwin's intent was that performers would play what he wrote.
Sorry, I don't think that argument holds water. A good piece of music holds up in interpretation. Listen to Coltrane's version of Rodgers' and Hammerstein's My Favorite Things, whicht, imo, is a great piece of music. Whether it's Coltrane flying up and down for about 15 minutes, or Julie Andrews performing it short and sweet with an orchestra, it's a great song.
Are composers necessarily arrangers?
And ya know, Gershwin's estate, or whoever owns the copyright these days, have happily accepted their royalties over the years.
I'll tell that to my friends who are jazz musicians. They're always looking for ways to not have to improvise on a tune.
And that damn bunch Paganini and Liszt ran around with -- fuck variations on a theme. Who do those thieving fucks think they are anyway?
Music is all about having a stick jammed clear up your arse -- playing every note exactly as written. Always has been, always will be
snark off
I think maybe Kip should change his screen name to "Salieri By Proxy".
Don't know if you remember the scene where Mozart, after being introduced to the Emperor, plays his variation of Salieri's march that was playing as Wolfie entered the room, but it's pretty fresh in my head.
I love that movie! You have to feel bad for poor old Salieri, who tried so hard. Mozart seemed to write like Bob McKimson animated -- just went right at it, in ink, and hardly ever had to correct anything.
Only, to me, Gershwin was Mozart and not Salieri. I'm sticking up for the genius.
A composer writes or improvises variations on a theme. He doesn't pretend to be playing a piece and do his own thing.
Obviously, writing comments involves a lot of improvising things that you pretend somebody else said, and then refuting them. Good job.
Snark ditto.
Since Gershiwin's intent, iirc, was to bring jazz into the concert hall, I think it's only appropriate that, as time goes on, performers try different ways of bringing that intent to life. I wouldn't call this my favorite performance of RiB, but I enjoyed it a lot, and have put the DVD into my Netflix queue.
:D
Without the improv, it ain't Jazz- it's Jazz-ish. Like Steely Dan.
I had used quotes from the link on the post, originally, but we're trying to keep the text down to a minimum. This is the quote tho which my comment in the OP relates:
Gershwin decided to keep his options open as to when Whiteman would bring in the orchestra and he did not write out one of the pages for solo piano, with only the words "Wait for nod" scrawled by Grofé on the band score. Gershwin improvised some of what he was playing. As he did not write out the piano part until after the performance, we do not know exactly how the original Rhapsody sounded.
And, honestly, I don't think that Gershwin, in the original performance, would have played it this way, but I think that Roberts improvisation is fresh and smart. The inclusion of his bassist and drummer is an original touch, but not what I expect would have been used 80+ years ago.
And, iirc, I've read somewhere that Oscar Levant performed the piano part very closely to Gershwin's own original performance. Any thoughts on that, Kip?
Levant's one of the best Gershwin interpreters. He had a real affinity for the music and for his friend George. His recordings, as far as I know, are all of the glossy orchestra version, and not of the jazz band version. Also, many of the optional cuts that Gershwin allowed in order to fit the music onto a 12" 78 are taken, unfortunately. It's only in recent years that we've been getting full-length recordings of the rhapsody with the original instrument line-up.
There's an impressive 2-LP set that recreates the whole concert that introduced the Rhapsody. I don't know if it's been reissued on CD, but it should be.
"Interpreter". Interpretation isn't a science, it's an ART.
Maybe you'd prefer the pianist in any performance be a player piano, huh?
The performer just needs to play the notes on the paper. "Interpretation" in classical music -- which Gershwin aspired to in this music, as opposed to his popular songs -- means playing what was written. It is still possible to put the stamp of personality on a piece without adding and subtracting to it.
Improvisation on a song is not the same thing as performing concert music.
Please.
Interpretation isn't fixed anything, anywhere. If you interpreted Mandarin into English perfectly, everyone would be speaking Mandarin in the first place. No need for interpreters.
And, again:
Gershwin improvised some of what he was playing. As he did not write out the piano part until after the performance, we do not know exactly how the original Rhapsody sounded.
Interpretation is what an artist does with the notes, not improvising on them and substituting different notes. Gershwin didn't have it all written down in time for the first performance, but that's not a license to change what he did write.
I notice you're sounding more and more like you just want to argue. Too bad. You started out sounding like you were really interested in the subject and might be open to another point of view. I guess I just interpreted you wrong.
Well, maybe, but I'm not the only one here who takes issue with your strict adherence to what you think the piece should sound like.
Look, you wrote:
The orchestrations were all done by Ferde Grofe: two in Gershwin's lifetime, and the last at about the time of his death.
Which is all well and fine, but if you're really going to adhere to the standard of originality, you have to throw Grofe out the window because there's no way he couldn't have strayed from the original.
Hell, if Grofe did three different orchestraions, then, by your standard, two of them must be rip-offs! Damn that Ferde Grofe!
You started out sounding like you were really interested in the subject and might be open to another point of view.
Hey, I've been having fun with this all along, Kip, don't get me wrong....But that's the most ironic thing you could have possibly written.
:D
Andy, when I wrote the comment you quote above, I didn't realize that you had chosen and posted the music, or that I was insulting you by jumping on your choice. I won't do it again. I'm sorry.
A "two-pronged attack on Gershwin"?? Ozawa and Marcus Roberts are "jerks"?
Who are you, anyway - the jazz police? Seems to me that you're the real jerk and clown. And an ignorant snob to boot.
Gershwin's piano roll and Tilson-Thomas's archival recording are indeed valuable records of the original performance. This is something else, a variation on a theme. An improvisation, in other words. Something that is rather central to the meaning of jazz.
Was Louis Armstrong a jerk and a clown when he blew variations on W. C. Handy? How about Charlie Parker, when he played blues runs at blinding speed?
Jazz, like all art forms, evolves and quotes from earlier forms. Do you consider Van Gogh and Picasso jerks and clowns, because they reinterpreted what went before them?
As I keep saying, I'm not opposed to jazz improvisations on, say, popular songs, or any improvisations that are labeled as such.
This is labeled as a performance of a concert piece. The momentum is thrown away while the performers take their breaks, and what should be exciting and propulsive just keeps breaking down.
Gershwin's music seems to come through enough to please pretty much everyone here. I didn't want anybody to think that the gimmicked-up version was the real thing.
Wow. Somehow I doubt that Roberts, Ozawa, or the BPO intended to present this as THE DEFINITIVE Rhapsody in Blue interpretation. Since you appear to consider yourself a Gershwin scholar I'm wary of arguing with you about what Gershwin thought would happen to this music in the future. So I'll content myself with saying that it would have been odd for any composer of such an obviously jazz-influenced piece to think no one would ever embellish it by "jazzing it up."
This was the first time I've ever seen or heard it with a rhythm section and this presentation really floored me. I loved the extended trio passages and I also thought I could see and hear Roberts comping during the tutti passages where I have never previously heard piano on any of my other recordings.
So you are welcome to your "original intent" worldview, which probably better qualifies you for a position on the U.S. Supreme Court than as a music fan. I think this format is a HUGE success.
Lovely. Thanks for posting it.
Awesome version of an old classic. The piano player made it better with his bluesy improvisations and the band played it very nice and tight.
By God, I loved this until I was informed what a bad parody of Gershwin it is. FOR SHAME!
Not.
The music threads were so much cooler when the self-annointed music masters of the universe didn't feel the need to come down from on-high and go harsh on people about their musical choices.
It's been an eon since then.
Good pick Andy K.
It wasn't a bad anything of Gershwin. I just watched it for the second time an liked it even more. I will probably watch it again.
What is Jazz? Is it a fixed system? I think not!
This is a heartfelt triumph of Rhapsody in Blue and i know that as more and more musicians are born and this beautiful piece of music lives on more and more people will play it and play with it.
I can't wait!
It is erin, right?
Hell, I don't mind the criticism. It's not like it's the first performance of the piece I've heard. It's intriguing, though. It is the best video package I've found of the piece on the internet- good audio and video quality.
It is difficult to find horrible versions of this tune although i have heard several. I grew up with this tune. The first time i heard it i was less than a year old. It is a tune that is difficult to fuck up because you need to have an orchestra to play it. If you have an orchestra you are not musically illiterate. This was an excellent version. Thank you for posting it. :)
That last song that you featured the other night in the music club had a most intriguing video.
All I can say is 'Yowsah'!
:)
Bongwater. The gorgeous Anne Magnuson, best known as a tv and movie actress, but a very interesting and prolific performance artist.
Years ago, I heard (and saw, it was televised) a more authentic version of the first performance.
Benny Goodman played, Patricia Pratiss Jennings played piano (she recently retired as principle pianist and keyboard with the Pittsburgh Symphony) about a dozen strings (not a big section at all) and a jazz band. Think of Lawrence Welk's jazz band and you'll get the idea of about the size of the band. They seldom had more than 20 people. So Seiji Ozawa's huge orchestra changes the sonority of the accompaniment.
But this is a gorgeous rendition. Rather a bit unique but well worth the listen. Jazz was never fixed in one version and this just wows in many ways.
A Fifth of Beethoven - Walter Murphy - STEREO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kDzOGqgMlE
it is so good to see you once again.
And, if I may be so bold to say, you have selected a fine tune!
My pleasure my lady.
Mason Williams - Classical Gas (Both Versions)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6_VP51brH4&fe...
Eric Clapton - Classical Gas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55A9H-PqOvY
This version is FANTASTIC. Gershwin would have flipped over this.
I put on Rhapsody In Blue not long ago, after not listening to it in years. It bored me after a while. But this take on it is just fabulous.
OT: Congrats on the new look, but I'm not crazy about the new comment functions. Too many steps. Oh well, maybe I'll get used to it.
Maurice Ravel - Bolero - Herbert von Karajan 1985 - Part I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3J2_EOHBI4
Maurice Ravel - Bolero - Herbert von Karajan 1985 - Part II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggsCw4i0S-U&fe...
I especially love Clapton's version. Thanks :)
"Jammin' the Blues" 1944
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/j...
Victor Borge plays Liszt´s Hungarian Rhapsody No 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcV19rylSZc
Good night all!!!!
Wouldn't be right if I pirated a thread that I wrote, would it? Quick, find some Supertramp...Maybe that would draw Stanley in, too.
and thanks to all for the excellent tuneage this evening.
C&L is rocking tonight!
Things Ain't What They Used To Be
to all. I can go to sleep happy now :)
skippy has the overture to the thieving magpie by the vienna philharmonic, and the william tell overture, by the vienna philharmonic, both conducted by claudio abbado.
Boys, boys ... (girls?)
Enough, already. It's all good. OK, some of it's good, and some isn't. Plenty of variety to go around.
That said: here's the best all-around version of this classic. The tempi are tops. Best Concerto in F as well (imo a much better piece). The early stereo (Mercury Living Presence) is legendary. I grew up with this, and every time I hear alternative versions they sound off a bit by comparison.
Please share the link. :)
The links aren't showing up very well, are they?
It's a link to the recordings Amazon page, though. Probably not loaded at YouTube, DailyMotion, etc.....
The default font size is pretty small. Also: no hover. Oh well ...
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp...
The second, slow movement of the Concerto is just amazing. Melancholy, bluesy - and spirited as well.
reminds me of the brubeck/gershwin and brubeck/bernstein stuff...awesome post.
http://musicforastrongamerica.com
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