C&L's Late Nite Music Club with Mahavishnu Orchestra
By MaxMarginal Wednesday Sep 09, 2009 7:14pmAlright, musos. "The Dance of Maya" by Mahavishnu Orchestra has it all. Funny time signatures. Double guitars. Billy Freakin' Cobham.
Fusion juggernaut Mahavishnu Orchestra, led by John McLaughlin, picked up where he and drummer Billy Cobham left off with Miles Davis' Bitches Brew, and expanded the minds of thousands of rock and jazz listeners and musicians with two great albums in the early seventies before they stopped speaking to each other, changed lineups, and eventually fizzled out.
I first heard "Maya" in 11th grade when the very adventurous teacher of our high school jazz group brought it in for us to play, which in retrospect was a fairly irresponsible thing to do to sixteen-year-olds who love to overplay. Fortunately, he kept us in line and we held it to just under twelve minutes, a restriction from which McLaughlin and company are thanfully excused here.
Complicated prog favorites, anyone?
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of all time. I had the great fortune of seeing them 4 times. The quality of interplay between them was astonishing and breathtaking.
Old school (very old) prog fav:
Silver Apples
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDk-PGRMMw4&fe...
Yeah. Anything by Frank Zappa.
Like this from 1973:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-N8uKzC03E
Montana.
that Mahavishnu Orchestra opened for Frank? That's what nudged your train of thought, isn't it? I saw them in Milwaukee.
I saw it, but it's hard to even imagine something that awesome now.
Brilliant young saxophone player Miguel Zenon here
One of my favorite groups in the drug-addled 70's. Who listened to The Inner Mounting Flame without rearranging a few brain cells?
Obscure but great- Four Holes In The Ground by Italian group PFM (Prematia Forneria Marconi, or in English, Marconi's Famous Bakery.)
An insane song, both now and then.
If that's too pedestrian, there's always the French group Curved Air doing Above and Beyond from the LP Phantasmagoria.
they did mine.
Soft Machine? More laid back, but very microtonal.
Where to begin? My favorite early-70s prog album has to be RTF's "Romantic Warrior," which is actually a fairly restrained offering. Assuming that the (Dixie)Dregs qualify for this category, I'd have to mention "Unsung Heroes" from 1980, which had my favorite funk-prog track of all time, "Kat Food."
Of more recent vintage I'd mention "Erotomania" by Dream Theater.
Oh,yeah -- Zappa was amazing, and his son Dweezil is a worthy heir, as his version of "Inca Roads" demonstrates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xdFmnQZnn0
was cutting the edge also.
Zappa's Waka/Jawaka, Hot Rats, and The Grand Wazoo all come to mind.
Speaking of Zappa, Terry Bozzio (who was Zappa's drummer for several years) played in the prog rock band U.K.. Their 2nd album (and their last studio album) was called Danger Money. The last track on it is called Carrying No Cross, and it runs a mammoth 12 1/2 minutes. It's as good as anything U.K. ever did, and it's one of the most unheralded prog rock songs ever. It's pretty close to Emerson, Lake, and Palmer in their heyday.
Speaking of ELP, how 'bout some Love
BitchBeach?I kid, except for Canario and Memoirs of an Officer and a Gentleman. They're not as intricate as earlier ELP songs, but still damn good, especially compared to the rest of the album.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIpDQUliloU
I gather we're about the same age...I graduated high school in 1973...I even bought a Mahavishnu Orchestra album back around then, and each to his own, but...this is the reason punk rock had to happen. This is just tedious and dreary. I'm not opposed to great musicianship applied to the performance of a great composition, or put to service of inventive improvisation, but there's just no there there, in terms of composition, and the improv, if it's that and not all composed, is just frenetic noodling. I don't doubt it requires great technique, but technique does not music make. (I'm reminded of a column by Ralph Gleason in Rolling Stone, I believe, wherein he compared the experience of standing in front of Stan Kenton's orchestra, which I gather was quite loud and "virtuosic," and hearing the Who live, also a legendarily loud band: Gleason emphatically came down in favor of the Who as the superior experience. I don't recall the column clearly, but I believe he was trying to get at the ineffable qualities of music or musicians that result in such disparate results as the labor of listening to Kenton contrasted with the pleasure afforded by the Who.)
But...maybe I'm just a philistine.
There is no doubt that these musicians are fantastic (isn't that Jan Hammer on Keyboards?) but their music never had enough structure for my taste. The Birds of Fire album was different, but not one of my favorites.
"zone" of the music itself there everything makes sense. At the surface level it doesn't make sense.
Frenetic noodling leads to exactly the place you want to be where everything "clicks in" and starts happening automatically.
Tunes offer immediate structure, improvisation is spontaneous creation.
It's a language. You have to learn it. I hear the structure in this kind of stuff.
It's not that I don't get the structure that most of you rarely do anything interesting with it. You want to noodle your way to those great musical discoveries? That's what band practice/rehearsal is for.
Anyway, most competent musicians can play unconventional time signatures, but it's a whole other trick to do something interesting or relevant with them.
That's what made "Take 5" such a revolution, it was one of, if not the first song whose tune, concept and improv fit the odd rhythmic structure naturally, but in a way that made it clear to even the most novice of listeners that they were hearing something fresh, something that really changed music.
All MO does with this song is add a couple beats to the end of an otherwise conventional rhythm, and it just sounds like a clunky, awkward attempt to show off their chops.
That's not to say they weren't great musicians, they were on the forefront of some revolutionary music, just a bit too steeped in self-indulgence in this case. ("Check this, we're gonna do 10/8!")
Good modern progs: Ebu Gogo. Their keyboardist, Gavin Castleton, has been doing some really fascinating stuff as well. More prog-pop, but uses all kinds of time signatures, rhythm changes and orchestrations that ENHANCE the music without showing off. Google him. Anything you find will be worthwhile.
...music taste is very personal. We're all familiar with typical song structure and basic chording which most rock/punk/alt/etc has. Intro followed by verse, then chorus then verse then chorus then solo then outro or another verse/chorus/outro. The only things that seem to change are volume, effects and the way things are phrased. I think it takes guts, talent and sophistication to play music like this and requires the same from the listener. There is a meaning to the madness. I'm not implying anything bad about people who choose not to listen or like this kind of stuff but there is a difference between respecting something and liking something. You have to at least appreciate what these guys do if not enjoy it. On the other hand if I look at a Britney Spears video I think that while she's hot, the music sucks majorly. I don't think there'd be much of a credible argument for disagreeing.
I'm not quite sure you really have an argument here. In fact, some of the most refreshing approaches to big band arrangements were coming out of the Kenton band at the time, and it's not absurd to think the lineage can be traced to Gil Evan's later arranging. And as far as the Mahavishnu Orchestra is concerned, it's important to take this music in the context of what was going on at the time. This is, at once, bringing a whole new young audience and musicians (such as myself) into the techniques, and wonders of jazz, and at the same time, turning jazz musicians ears into yet another way to play. In retrospect, Mahavishnu did tend to be excessive, but there was some beautiful beautiful composing. "A Lotus On Irish Stream" and "Open Country Joy" are two very beautiful pieces, that come to mind.
...indulgence.
Hey, I think they found it!
This link:
http://prognotfrog.blogspot.com/2007_08_01_ar...
is about the only info I could find on these guys, but I wore this album out! So tight you couldn't slip a dollar bill between the notes, but very expressive, too. I would LOVE to find this in MP3 or ANY format. Zeno Sparkles on Guitar...you just know he has to be good. Actually, some of these kinds did R&B session work in Philly.
Crimson, and Brand X...Wouldn't have made it through adolescence without 'em.
;)
he tunes his guitar better
He didn't tune it at all back then.
Could be that either the tape is old and warbly, or the fact that he was also playing through a flanger.
Yes, Crimson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF6fxP-Nfvg
and, yes, Yes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNNPcqKfi_Y
If you don't get it, don't feel bad. It's a musical language far above the average listener's span.
I am a jazz pianist (though long retired as a profession) and was in high school (drug-free BTW) when these guys hit the scene -- and I "got it."
Seppuku time!
A couple of old prog favorites are Farewell to Kings by Rush
and Heart of the Sunrise by Yes.
Punk may have happened but Rush kept on churning out great stuff well into the 80's. Another good one is Distant Early Warning, among many others.
Door Of The Cosmos
Ffffuuuckkkkk! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlWr4T9qHIM&fe... Rave! Lulz!
But I'll take Genesis, "The Fountain of Salmacis"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_GVqOeKcOs
"Firth of Fifth"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD5engyVXe0
and "Supper's Ready," which is approximately 22 minutes of sheer awesomeness. If I were a born-again Christian, I'd probably start rolling on the floor and speaking in tongues after I've heard it for the first time. I'll also second the "Heart of the Sunrise" vote.
Free Jazz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEaS_oBLBrs&fe...
Ghettoblasta - I.O.U
<3
Ghosts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-egZKRNY1Jg&fe...
Hardsequenencer - The music just turns me on
L.A. Blues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxn4bUdmDJs&fe...
Space Frog - Time Slip
Mahavishnu is NOT the reason Punk was needed. Journey, Jefferson whatever and lousy arena rock were the culprits. Oh yea and disco
I saw this band many times in different incarnations sorta like The Mothers
Miles Beyond is my favorite.
The interplay between guitar and drums is truly amazing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgVhsQ3NIrY&fe...
Raver's Nature - Tricky Symphony
I saw them when I was in college in Indiana, they played a small movie theater,
all the seats were taken out so it was a pretty 'loose' setting.....
needless to say no one was ready for what we heard...
after the show...... the stunned look on everyone's face
said it all...it was the first time seeing them for me and my crowd of music students,
we knew we had heard something new and exceptional....
a few years later I was stunned again by Shakti.....
those were great music times, original bands, highly skilled with
something to say.....Weather Report, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return To Forever,
Herbie Hancock & Headhunters, Miles electric bands....Larry Coryell's 11th House,
all the CTI folks... McCoy Tyner had a great band.....on & on...........
Pink Floyd - Money - Live 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl6NfQyNLto
Another beautiful example of a song written in an odd time signature that worked for the song. Pink Floyd weren't just adding another beat to 6/4 time because they could, but because it was what the song needed in order to communicate and express the full concept of Money.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRt2jX1kaYo&fe...
Queen - somebody to love
A vid of me, self promoting :D
which one are you?
couldn't edit my post, i mean i posted the vid. :)
;)
this would be the song that best describes the Republican Party!
Junk Food Junkie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLiVeRJTtqo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9rG4WOR9yQ
RMB - Spring
Sorry for this :)
Yes: the best band ever!
The Gates of Delirium part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGZ4K-_nRSs
The Gates of Delirium part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4eSbge6UN4&fe...
Starship Trooper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jhk5MEugJY
Emerson, Lake and Palmer
Karn Evil 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeQsZOQqO6I
In 1972 my roommate and I left Georgetown, trained it up to NYC with tickets to see Mahavishnu at Lincoln Center. We could sleep on the floor in my brothers' apt as they were at Columbia.
Apart from Leo Kottke opening, which was weird, we were completely blown away by the show. I still feel it, it was tremendous. I wanted to walk back up to 106th St. Thankfully, a cooler head prevailed that night and we took a bus.
Anything after their first disc and before their series of pop records that began with 'The Missing Piece," which were all good as well. I'll say the title song from 1976's "Interview," primarily for the awesome syncopated dissonance of the piano break, but each record is excellent.
at "The Missing Piece", but "Free Hand" is easily one of the finest albums of the 70s. Saw them at the Tower in Philly, with Ace. Aces! They did a 15-or-so-minute break where they all played percussion, which I fondly recall as one of the neatest things I ever saw a band do.
Also, this thread needs more Triumvirat love;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiiWzVkdosU
Somebody ought to do a post on the great double-bills of yesteryear. Hendrix fronting for the Monkees, of course. But how about the Mahavishnu Orchestra as the warm-up act for the Allmand Brothers Band? ... About halfway through MO's first number at Dallas Convention Center, 1973 or so, the arena began to empty as dazed Allmand Brothers fans quickly gave up and headed out to the parking lot for "mind expansion" of a more mundane variety. They missed a hell of a show.
That doesn't seem like such a mismatch to me. The Allmans had some jazz influences. Especially in their longer jams.
My fav prog rock band ever from that time period.
Discipline:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WSNraCN5Zg&fe...
Indiscipline:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoVOY9XGDBI&fe...
Anyone check the date up top?
*Monday Jan 18, 2038 8:14pm*
Seems we have a time traveler in our midst!
has some names to drop
http://minnewiki.publicradio.org/index.php/Jo...
Liar, Liar, starring Rep. Joe Wilson (R-BC/BS).
L O L. . . like I was saying isn't it obvious we have no doubt entered the law of diminishing returns with all our great "technology"?
by Amon Duul II and The Faust Tapes by Faust.
Couldn't find any decent vids.
..bringing back the Gentle Giant flavah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7ENcMSv1Dg&fe...
Hatfield and the North, Herny Cow, Matching Mole. Mahavishnu was great. Especially with Jan Hammer. I bet a lot of people think his solos are McLaughlin because his sound is so guitar like. I thought his Birds of Fire solo was McLaughlin for years. He's a great, great guitarist but I think McLaughlin owes at least some of his rep to those Hammer solos on the first couple Mahavishnu records.
Van Der Graaf. Herbie Hancock's "Sextant"
Kevin Ayers.
I think Mahavishnu was an accident, a tremendously positive accident. That these musicians came together and mind-melded as a group, each one capable of making it on his own but even better as a group. I saw them in NY, and it was mind-blowing. I saw a solo Billy Cobham later in DC. They, and he, were brilliant.
Of course, Jan Hammer later gave us the theme to "Miami Vice." No comment.
Well yeah. I'm certainly not going to defend Miami Vice or much of anything else Jan did after Mahavishnu. Maybe the live album with Jeff Beck.
They're a little sloppy, but they've always had a big place in my heart. Mind expanding and funny is my favorite combination.
I Never Glid Before from Angel's Egg - 1973
And here's what they were like back then, the audio is rough and it cuts short, but there's not that much video of them at the time.
Gong Live 1972
Seconding Crimson also.
Here is my contribution. Some modern prog rock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vxiYsZS11Y
Tool doing Lateralus at Lollapalooza 2009. I was at this show. It was quite amazing.
I think means the attachment to ego and the illusion of our perceptions. Maya obscures the truth.
Studio version is more to the point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXuDijksD20
One of my favorite progressive bands is called Godspeed! You Black Emperor. They have broken up but their records are incredibly moving pieces of mini-orchestral beauty. Google the songs "Dead Flag Blues" and "Rockets Fall on Rocket Falls." Another new favorite is a band called The Mars Volta. I just saw Yes for the first time recently. I missed their heyday with Jon Anderson and Rick Wakeman. Wakeman's kid played the keys and the new singer dressed like Peter Pan. Played some deeper tracks like Astral Traveler and some stuff from Drama but it just fell short for me.
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